Goth Subculture - Christian Death Interview Sounds Magazine1984

Sounds Magazine article courtesy of  Flavius Merobaudes

Death Rattle CHRISTIAN DEATH convert Tibet Sounds, 2 June 1984

Assignment, as the master of horror, MR James wrote is "Penetrans Ad Interiora Mortis". Penetrate To The Insides Of Death. Well Christian Death anyway.The interview takes place in a curry house in the increasingly sordid Kings Cross. Not very Gothic, i hear you say ? All the more suitable then, since Christian Death, contrary, perhaps, to popular belief, don't really have anything to do with the horribly po-faced Gothic movement, even if their name seems... well, a little melodramatic. Having recently played their first show in England, with a new addition to the group in a shape of a six day old boy, followed by a long European and English set of dates, Christian Death are tired (understandably) and keen on making the point that they have zilch to do with any of the band that are supposedly brothers under the pale, pale skin. "The whole group started off about five years ago, with Roz" explains Valor, "David and I had been together for various projects for a while, and we got together with Roz. The band has been playing in America for about four years..." That's enough of that; from group's antics to the antics of the religious variety of the Klu Klux Klutzhead types: do you have a lot of problems with your name? "There was a point in time when there were a lot of record burnings from religious groupings; people do seem to get appalled by it. The worst time is when you're coming through customs, and they ask you what the name of your band is ..." So whose idea was the name? "Roz's." I turn to Roz: "I can't explain it; it's my own idea, and I don't really like giving a description of it." "It means different things to all of us," adds Valor, "everyone has to find their own meaning to it." There's one question that it is imperative to ask American bands who play in the G of B. Why, I'm not sure, but it's traditional! "How do you find English audiences?" I would be lying if I said they gasped at the originality of the request, but they answer all the same. "All the people that we've spoken to, like Sex Gang Children and Specimen say that british audiences, especially at the Batcave, weren't very good, and you didn't get encores. But we were amazed that we got the response that we did, and an encore, event we didn't get the chance to do it... (a barbed reference to the two other bands playing on the night. A Certain General and Band of Ousiders). The subject winds to the future... The imminent future. "The new LP is called Catstrophe Ballet, and is all very new and very good material," says David, "It should be out this month on the french Invitation Au Suicide records; then we'll be doing a proper tour." A sidetrack; I discuss Los Angeles famous son, Charles Miles Manson, of Helter Skelter fame. "There's a band called Manson Youth in LA," Valor observes drily, "I haven't heard them, but the name fascinates me ! They're very much into having a resurgence of the family thing." And they really into it, or just playing around with horror show imagery ? I wonder. "Cause if they're not serious, and they get visited by some of Charlie's old flames... "They're in a lot of trouble" Valor finishes off ! Still: an impressive way to end a career. Valor points out that any band or song with the phrase "Malcom X" on it would never get air play in the US. One man's meat... Valor still feels that there is more freedom of expression in Britain (and long may it stay that way). "Most bands in other countries are copying each other, but British bands are freer." A natural reaction: as a paternalistic and reactionary government clamps down, people will become more desperate to brandish their rights. "I'm proud to be in this band, " points out Valor, "because it's one of the few bands from America that are doing anything that isn't influenced by current trends. Christian Death have been using this imagery long before Sex Gang or Specimen." That's an important point: a lot of people are bound to label Christian Death as part of the Gothic neo-post-post-punk band wagon... "They use that term very loosely," says David. "I was talking to the guitar player of Sex Gang in Los Angeles," says Valor, "and he said he was very much influenced by the guitar on our first LP, Theatre Of Pain, they were telling me that a lot of the new bands, like Death Cult too, were veryinfluenced by bands like Christian Death and The Cramps, as they had bought their records when they were still quite rare over here. Roz was being tied to crosses a long time ago ... but we don't do that anymore! "We were labelled Gothic in the American press years ago; and we don't have anything to do with it. It's the most common misconception about us. We've seen all of this Death-rock stuff in LA : they sprang up after Christian Death." The problems of 'rock 'n' roll.' A lot of groups say that they're here to destroy rock'n' roll, and then go on their major tour, and play indecently tedious and conventional rock'n'roll music. Are Christian Death the death of things as they are? Can you work against it? "We're not interested in working against it. We don't even think about trying to be different; we just do what we want," says Valor. For a band that have been invested with so much false imagery, Christian Death are remarkably free of the hackneyed phrases and predictable cliches that you might expect if you believe what some people write about them. Christian Death: they just do what they wanna do. All aboard for Funtime... Accessed 6/9/17 http://thebluehour.free.fr/rozzarticles-sounds84.html Sounds, 14 April 1984  Christian Death/ Band of Outsiders/ Certain General Live at The Batcave

Images by Mick Mercer from Christian Death Photo Book

CHRISTIAN DEATH
The Batcave
London, England
04 April, 1984

Setlist:
Awake At The Wall
Sleepwalk
The Drowning
Theatre Of Pain
Into The Light
Cavity (First Communion)
The Blue Hour
Androgynous Noise Hand Permeates
Electra Descending
As Evening Falls
Face
Cervix Couch
The Glass House
Romeo's Distressccessedcessed Rozznet: Th 


Accessed The Official Rozz Williams page 

Batcave: the former legendary club

If subculture takes place, it is not possible to avoid the mention of the Batcave club, the Ollie Wisdom team operated in London, Soho.

England, the beginning of the eighties. A steamy, cool early evening in the entertainment district of the city, in the dark lights of lights and advertisements glitter. There is unemployment, nihil, insecurity, arrogance of ineffectiveness, escape from everyday life. Boots, boots and high heels are heard. A small group walks through the streets. Over-sized waistcoats, stretched sweaters, leather jackets, better-looking jackets, cheap tights and makeup, hairstyles for hairy shapes ... Young people are having fun.

Batcave was one of England's many clubs, which were popular meeting places for underground subcultures. Cheap drinks, dusty checkered flooring, carefully tapped walls, camouflage of the muddy plaster with different torn fabrics and nets, grids and cages, enthusiastic makeup in both men's and men's wards, and of course better ones ...
But what was it that highlighted among the other alternative clubs? Soho is packed with entertainment. Similarly, and similarly legendary, though much more elegant, for example, the new Romantic Blitz club (blitzkid named after the batcaver).
The specialty of Batcave might have been that he was not so elite that young people could not afford to give them space to fantasy, it was an opportunity to break away from the greed of everyday life, to rave a little, to experiment with fashion and music.

When the Bats Cave opened in 1982, it was far from the goal of creating a goth club. The main profile of the bowie cult glam rock and the new wave had some horror aftertaste, but the darker mood of the place soon subtracted the later decisive figures of the musical and cultural life of the nascent subculture. Among them were Siouxsie, Robert Smith, Marc Almond, Nick Cave, Danielle Dax, and Ausgang, Zor Gabor, Test Dept, Fetus, Bone Orchard, Zero Le Creche and Flesh For Lulu bands. Of course, the hosts' own band, Specimen, also often entertained the big-name.

We went to Batcave because they allowed me for free, the atmosphere was nice and friendly, good-looking people gathered down there. But music, that was horrible! This is all romance with death! Anyone who has been confronted with death may say that there is nothing romantic about it. "
Robert Smith, The Gloom Generation, 1997, Details Magazine

Nick Wade, who perhaps knew more than Nik Fiend, was at this time at the club. From here, friendship with Nick Cave, and here he began to break his wings together with Mrs. Fiend, a joint music project, so we can say that Alien Sex Fiend is a real Batcave band. As a foreign guest in 1984, Christian Death also respected, and Specimen also visited the States as a traveling traveling circus, they took Batcave's decoration and their modest performance, bringing the British and American subcultures closer. The club did not only tour abroad, but it was inside the Soh. she moved, but the mood and the name remained unchanged. Beside live music Dj Hamish (Hamish McDonald) was responsible for the mood, who also played guitar and sang in the Sexbeat band.

"There is a big difference between '77 punks and '83 pockets, Mick Jones (ed. The Clash) came down to Batcave and stood alone, he did not know where he was. The old puppets need the Pistols, the new ones have switched to Alien Sex Fiend, and although many goth bands can not be danced, they have the deep, tough bang. " 

" Batcave is attracting a chameleon-like company and you can see a rockabilly guy dancing with a goth girl. Various groups come together and listen to each other's music ... "
Hamish, The Face, 1984

But what about music in batcave? We are talking about a controversial topic, since batcave as a genre is a fairly delicate concept, as many people, as many views and opinions. The oldschool goth subculture has been bunched over many times, but it does not seem to be getting bored for so long.

Many people today are used as the synonym for deathrock, although they can be distinguished from both space and sound. The reason for this is that the deathrock scene, especially after the 2000s, is in many respects based on this English foundation (for example, Sex Gang Children, Alien Sex Fiend favorites), and strange modes are brought by fans of the deathrock genre they prefer to use the club logo.

I think it might be somewhat closer to the description of the English music of the era, usually in Batcave and similar pubs. It mainly covers new wave, post punk, melancholic or morbid punk, and positively punk (goth) performers.
During this period, the term goth was not widespread yet. Most people said they were punk or wavers. Siouxsie, Dave Vanian and many others, like punk, lived in the public domain, at first The Cure was also an alternative band running on UK top lists.

In the strict sense, however, only the gangs in Batcave use this term. For similar reasons many people use batcaver for the former visitors of the club, members of younger generations and others of similar interest in other countries are called oldschool goths or deathrockers.

However, it must be acknowledged that the Batcave club itself is largely due to the cultural and clothing aspect of the goth subculture, and the main musical influences have been largely out of the club, and the concerts of later bands will not have been achieved.
A lot of people gathered here, from the more fashionable punk to the new romance to the androgens and fetish fans who considered it a more tolerant place for wilder punk pubs.

"We do not have any dresscode or the like. After all, how do we decide that it's okay that we do not just because it looks like. " 

Ollie Wisdom, London Weekend Televison, 1983

Fashion, for example, thanks to the deathrockers' tattered pantyhose exterior to Specimen, the smocky jabs, strong makeup and pointed punch the appearance of blitzkids, the presence of chains, corsets, leather and rivets on the fetish medium, band t-shirts and painted coats for the punk ... Ideas and thoughts have circled in this varied medium and became a completely new concept that today as goth we know subculture.
"When we went out with Batcave last year, it became clear that people wanted to dance, not just sitting at the black candles in an" alternative "club. In small towns like Colne, we have found that they want to party, rave, but just modern music such as Cocteau Twins. It was very difficult to incorporate older glam rock as well. There are now Batcave evenings in Liverpool in Plane, Leicester in Belfry, Hacienda in Manchester ... "
Hamish, The Face, 1984

The club's organizers have already released a musical selection in 1983 under the name Young Limbs and Numb Hymns, similarly followed.

In the memory of the Batcave club, a booklet published in several books, including volumes of chronological photographs of the club's daily lives, staff, audiences, cabaret performances and concerts, have been released. Some of these recordings are also available on the Internet.

Accessed   http://deathrock.hu/batcavepast#page  © Copyright: Sage Noir